Transcripts:Closed Session, Colossus 84, 1328
Present: ::Vice Legate Thermogan ::Minister Aguillard ::Minister Dylane ::Minister Wolfe ::Minister Valoran ::Minister Volundir ::Secretary K. Aguillard ::Secretary Jeriena ::Secretary Kavesh ::Secretary Thrush ::Magistrate Havashem ::Magistrate La Verdiere ::Lieutenant Kent a detail of Ministry Guard ::Doctor Aquitaine University :The Closed Session started just after six bells and a half. Minister Aguillard: “Good evening everyone. After recently speaking to the Vice-Legate, he is en route and will be along shortly. However, he did not want to delay the session before Wintersday any longer. So on this evening's docket we have two major bills to discuss: The Resolution for Judicial Restructuring and Oversight bill doctored by both Lord-Minister Noah Dylane and Magistrate Rosalynd Havashem and the bill the Vice Legate is presently constructing. To open, I would appreciate if Lord-Minister Dylane can open with the bill.” Minister Dylane: “Good evening honored colleagues. By now, you have all had a chance to read the language of the bill. After the allegations against Commander Wong arose, Magistrate Havashem and I conceived a solution to the apparent problems this presented. The answer was a piece of legislation that erased the burdens of the Seraph while also increasing the Ministry’s oversight in regards to internal tribunals. I feel this to be of paramount import to ensure the integrity within the military arm of the Kingdom. As I am certain you have all read the materials, I will not recite the bill verbatim. I open the floor to any questions you may have of Magistrate Havashem, Minister Aguillard, or myself.” Minister Volundir: “I have a question.” Minister Dylane: “Yes, Minister Volundir?” Minister Volundir: “Since we have spoken, has there been any contact with the Seraph regarding the bill?” Magistrate Havashem: “Can you clarify when your previous meeting was? I spoke with Commander Braxis before coming here tonight.” Minister Volundir: “And did you make any changes to the legislation after this meeting?” Minister Dylane: “Minister Volundir and I last spoke two days ago. Minister Aguillard likewise met with Commander Volundir, I believe. It was decided that the language should remain unchanged.” Minister Volundir: “By you, or the Seraph Commander? I’m curious as to what his suggestions were.” Magistrate Havashem: “Minister Aguillard, would you like to share your experience?” Minister Wolfe: “I don’t mean to be disruptive, but are we talking about the Commander Braxis Volundir? Your cousin?” :Legate Thermogan enters the Chambers. Minister Volundir: “I am indeed. Does the fact we share a name cause you concern? We have spoken little on the matter.” Magistrate Havashem: “Commander Volundir is the head of the First Regiment which is currently overseeing Seraph Tribunals and disciplinary actions. It makes him the most qualified to discuss the matter with.” Minister Wolfe: “I think that it is a justified concern, is it not? It means you may have a vested interest. Whether unintentional or not.” Secretary Thrush: “No one can control their blood.” Minister Valoran: “I believe we can all agree, bringing family names into this is just throwing oil to the flame, is it not?” Minister Wolfe: “The whole point of this is Ministry oversight, is it not? Do you ask the opinion of a child before you punish them?” Minister Volundir: “The Seraph are not children and we are all adults. The actions of one Commander doesn’t vilify the rest.” :light debate regarding the Seraph takes place on the side while Magistrate Havashem is responding to Minister Volundir. A parallel between the corruption in the Seraph and the Ministry is drawn, and the consequences of amending both are called into question. Magistrate Havashem: “To answer your question, in my part Minister Volundir, the Commander was agreeable to a solution to an acknowledged problem but was not supportive of the bill as expected. He provided me with a copy of papers detailing current Tribunal practices and new regulations being introduced, including a more open relationship with the Ministry and reports being set to the Lower Court. I was invited to and observed a tribunal he oversaw and could find no fault in the current process. That said, I believe the integrity of the man is strong and I have great faith in him. Unfortunately, we cannot be assured people of integrity will always fill that position; hence, the legislation as a check or balance.” Minister Valoran: response to the side conversation “The only charge was misuse of magic. Why was nothing else at least put into law to keep it from occurring again in another form? To use it to fuel an oversight committee is redundant.” Vice Legate Thermogan: “I would like to apologize for being gone for the first minutes on this matter. Though I feel we need to have a simple look into this: Who watches the Ministry Orders? Having a simple oversight doesn’t mean we’re coddling them and treating them like a child. It is to prevent acts against good people. We’re at war and people make mistakes during wars. Though these mistakes cannot be glossed over, a completely detached and unbiased opinion of the court systems would be ideal to protect all those who claim Kryta as their home.” Magistrate Havashem: “Minister Valoran, misuse of magic is abhorrent, but it would have been harder to achieve if Wong had not been allowed complete autonomy.” Secretary K. Aguillard: “Vice Legate, if I may have the floor a moment.” Vice Legate Thermogan: “Lord Secretary Aguillard, you have the floor.” Secretary K. Aguillard: “Thank you. Having been present during some of the markup that went into Lord Minister Dylane’s bill, I can tell each person in this chamber that this is a good faith effort to provide oversight for Kryta’s military orders during a time when the peoples’ faith in them has been damaged. With all due respect to the bill’s skeptic, it really is quite that simple. And meaning no disrespect to Lord Minister Volundir, I find his remarks to be both unproductive and meritless. A reading of the bill’s language makes it clear that oversight and accountability are the bill’s only goals; else Lord Dylane, I expect, would have named it the Resolution to Vilify and Embarrass the Military Orders of Kryta Act. Additionally, speculation on the opinions of officials outside of this Chamber is wholly beyond the scope of this assembly. It’s our understanding that we’re here to debate the bill on its merits, and for those who oppose it, I would very much like to hear you address it on the merits. And by that, I mean the language itself, rather than on the basis of what you believe the spirit of the thing is. Because I can guarantee you on that latter score, you are solely off the mark. Thank you, Ministers.” Minister Volundir: “Can I respond?” Vice Legate Thermogan: “Lord Minister Volundir, you have the floor. I don’t want an ‘what ifs’ in this question though if it is a rebuttal.” Minister Volundir: “Alright then. I move to amend the legislation to allow for Seraph Tribunals to have oversight from a Ministerial Magistrate who has the ability to overrule the Seraph Judge.” Minister Valoran: “I’d like a moment, Vice Legate.” Minister Dylane: “I would also like to respond.” Minister Volundir: “You would find the particular clause in Article I.” Vice Legate Thermogan: “Lord Volundir, within Krytan Law, amendments come after the bill has passed. This is to prevent poison pills from being put into certain bills. This could be forwarded to the next Closed Session after it has been written for all and those who observe thoroughly to make a proper judgement call on it.” Minister Volundir: “Can we not make judgement calls now? Is the change so major that our meek minds cannot comprehend it in a conversation here?” Minister Dylane: “Does the Minister of Ascalon Settlement suggestion that we should not follow proper procedure?” Minister Wolfe: “It would seem so.” Vice Legate Thermogan: “Parliamentary procedure cannot be voided at all, Lord Minister Volundir. It could be small, yes. Though it would only allow further tweaks on the fly of certain bills.” Magistrate Havashem: “The suggestion has merit, but I agree the bill has to be considered as it has already been brought. However, it is an excellent point to consider for review if it is rejected, or as an amendment.” Minister Volundir: “Very well then. We shall wait another month to amend it. Just put the thing to a vote. You all seem quite content with it, after all.” Minister Dylane: “I second the motion.” Minister Valoran: “I have a question first. Lord Minister Dylane and Magistrate Havashem, have either of you attended a tribunal before?” Magistrate Havashem: “I said previously this evening that I had coincide. While everyone was talking over one another.” Minister Valoran: “And how long did it take to get all that set into motion Magistrate? It was nearly two weeks, was it not?” Minister Volundir: “Minister Valoran, excuse me, do you have a question pertaining to the language of the bill?” Vice Legate Thermogan: “I didn’t forget you, Minister Valoran. Please don’t interject yourself while another has the floor.” Magistrate Havashem: “I was given the date, time, and location of the matter, not a time line.” Vice Legate Thermogan: “Though, you have the floor Minister Valoran.” Minister Valoran: “Requiring a Magistrate be present is time consuming. The more people required is time consuming, and when the time exceeds the jail time, who is going to pay for the restitution to the defendant for exceeding time served? Because it will happen, and it’s going to have to come from somewhere, so where is the money going to come from?” :K. Aguillard and Minister Wolfe take the floor to continue the motion to vote. Minister Valoran: “Not going to answer my simple question? I thought you had this all planned out.” Magistrate Havashem: “Minister Valoran does raise an important question.” Vice Legate Thermogan: “Minister Valoran, while you question has merit, I don’t want to hear this passive aggressive tone from you against in these chambers if someone doesn’t wish to address it at this point in time. If I hear you make snide remarks against, I will have a gag order on you from the Guardsmen due to your incompetency with parliamentary procedure. Do I make myself clear?” Minister Valoran: “My apologies, Vice Legate, and crystal.” Magistrate Havashem: “I will happily answer the Minister’s question.” Vice Legate Thermogan: “Minister Aguillard, and then you may answer his question after the Minister. Then we will move to a vote. We’ve spent enough time on this. Minister Aguillard, you have the floor.” Minister Aguillard: “Thank you, Vice Legate. Firstly, I would like to speak on a question earlier raised about my conversation with Commander Volundir. We met the day following the Wong trial and discussed the bill at some length. I do believe, as all bills that pass through this chamber, there will be room for amendments to keep the bill current with the climate of Kryta’s populace. Both he and I seek collaboration from this point forward, to marry traditions of the First Regiment and the Resolution for Judicial Restructuring and Oversight. There are guidelines I believe this bill will benefit from when transcending sentiments of the preexisting First Regiment document. However, as all legislation does, it will require time and the effort of both parties. As for the funding of this bill, and Minister Valoran, I am pleased to see you adapt the advice I gave you long ago, there is some to be desired and discussed. The Ministry has always been able to maintain the wages of the Magistrates. As a former one myself, I can, from the depths of my heart and wallet, confess that the esteemed Legate had never left my paychecks wanting; it is fortunate. As for the manpower required by the Seraph, I believe that is another thing we can work to collaborate on and get a proper fiscal gauge of exactly what is needed in way of numbers. We cannot account for what ifs, or we shall be here well past Wintersday. We need their figures, and I will not deny that. Once we get them, we can accommodate for them.” Vice Legate Thermogan: “Thank you very much, Minister Aguillard.” Magistrate Havashem: “You may answer Minister Valoran’s question now and we will put it to a vote.” Magistrate Havashem: “Minister Aguillard covered most of the points. This arrangement, in theory, should cost the Seraph less than the additional body of a Magistrate attending their tribunals. As to the mentioned concern on restitution, if the Lower Courts fail to act in a timely manner and a trial results in compensation being made to the accused, it will have to be considered who is at fault. If the courts are to blame for wrongful imprisonment then it should be held morally and fiscally responsible.” :commences on the Resolution for Judicial Restructuring and Oversight Bill. ::Minister Volundir abstains. ::Minister Dylane in favor. ::Minister Wolfe in favor. ::Minister Aguillard in favor. ::Minister Valoran abstains. :Bill passes. Vice Legate Thermogan: "Three for, two abstaining. Without the need of my vote, the bill passes. I would like to move to something else, before we go onto the next topic. I will be stepping down as Vice Legate after this closed session and the start of the next open. I feel that my neglect of war torn areas cannot be ignored. I will be going back to being a full time Minister in Nebo Terrace to fight the Centaur War. To keep the people of Gendarran safe from the threats that plague such a stricken area. I will name and vote for Lady Minister Wolfe as the one to replace me. We will move to a vote now as we have more to discuss.” :commences for the next Vice Legate. ::Minister Volundir votes in favor. ::Minister Dylane votes in favor. ::Minister Wolfe votes in favor. ::Minister Aguillard votes in favor. :passes to elect Gia Wolfe as the new Vice Legate. Minister Valoran: “While I don’t know the Lady Minister quite enough to make an accurate vote, the resounding of ‘ayes’ speak bounds of her character in that regard. So aye.” :Wolfe is voted in as the new Vice Legate, official records after this transcript shall denote such. Minister Wolfe: “I want to take a moment to say thank you, to all of my fellow Ministers, and Minister Thermogan. Your faith in my capabilities are humbling to be honest. I hope that in returning to the seat of Vice Legate, we will be able to work in collaboration to restore the people’s faith in our Ministry.” Lieutenant Kent: “May I have the floor, Vice-Legate?” :confusion takes place over the effective date of the motion. Lieutenant Kent is given the floor nonetheless. Lieutenant Kent: “The Ministry Guard would like to approach the Krytan Ministry to present the case for a vote of no confidence on Minister Arathander Valoran.” Minister Wolfe: “Then we will set a date for a hearing, presuming there is sufficient grounds, at a later point. I do not wish to hinder Minister Thermogan any further. Apologies, Minister. Thank you, Lord Lieutenant.” Vice Legate Thermogan: “Very well, once there is a case brought that has significant evidence, a vote of no confidence on the Minister of Shaemoor will take place. You will speak to the Vice Legate after gathering sufficient evidence on the matter. Once this is made, you will present a case for the Ministers to vote on.” Minister Valoran: Actually, let’s not waste tax payer money further, let’s do a vote now. Everyone already has their mind made up.” Minister Aguillard: “If I may speak?” Vice Legate Thermogan: Valoran: “No.” Aguillard “You have the floor.” Minister Aguillard: “It is imperative that even among our chambers, we hold ourselves to the integrity of the courts and systems, Minister Valoran. If you so passionately serve the people of Shaemoor as you once told you did, such rash words are incredibly unbecoming of your station. I implore you, for the sake of your people, to not speak with such venom for your colleagues, or toward the system.” Minister Valoran: “You’re right, Lady Minister. Which brings something to mind actually. If other Ministers, in their wisdom, feel that a Minister had not lived up to the expectations of the office and must be removed, a petition with charges must be signed by two-fifths of the serving Ministers and must be submitted to the Vice Legate. The Vice Legate will then have the petition posted publicly for one week with a time and place for the vote of removal. If two-thirds of the Ministry vote for the measure, then the Minister is immediately removed and their Secretary fills the empty position for thirty days. A quorum of five ministers must be present for the vote.”Removal of a Minister Minister Aguillard: “Precisely.” Minister Valoran: “As I am aware, this claim came from a Ministry Guard, not two fifths of the serving Ministers.” Minister Wolfe: “If I may, Minister Thermogan?” Vice Legate Thermogan: “There must be a case against you, Minister Valoran. There must be evidence that proves you aren’t able to perform your duties. One that shows some form of neglect or corruption. You have the floor, Vice Legate Wolfe.” Minister Wolfe: “Minister Thermogan is exactly right. If there is a sufficient case, it is then that it would go to a hearing, and a vote. No one has suggested such is done tonight. Thank you, Minister.” Minister Valoran: “For a hearing to take place though a petition must be submitted by two-fifths. I fail to see how a hearing can take place without it.” Secretary Thrush: “I have a question on the matter as well.” Minister Dylane: “If I may?” Minister Wolfe: “A claim has to be legitimate before it even gets to a petition, is the point. Is that not clear?” Secretary Thrush: “Will a petition be required to be made?” Vice Legate Thermogan: “Yes, it will be required. This is the phase even before that. The Ministry Guard were only making it clear to both Minister Valoran and the body of Minister of what they are doing.” Minister Valoran: “Then the Ministry Guard is not following procedure, because for a hearing to be announced, there must be a petition.” Vice Legate Thermogan: “The Ministry Guard cannot be cloak and dagger with the ones they’re trying to protect. If the Ministry Guard did secret investigations against any of us, it’d ruin their credibility to protect us.” Minister Valoran: “A petition was never spoke of till I mentioned that little letter in our law.” show there was mention of setting a date for a hearing, but no original mention of a petition. Vice Legate Thermogan: “Minister Valoran, before I let Secretary Thrush and Lord Minister Dylane speak – would you rather they be quiet about it and not tell you? None of the Ministers at this moment are considering a vote of no confidence against you or the petition. Secretary Thrush, you have the floor.” Secretary Thrush: “My original question’s been answered, but I would like to comment that Valoran’s slight confusion is quite understandable. Though it seems obvious a petition would come before such a hearing, the way the timeline was being described – before he made mention of the petition requirement – did not allude to such a thing. It sounded very much like the same due process Wong received. I just wanted that clear. Honest mistake maybe, but all the same.” Vice Legate Thermogan: “Lord Minister Dylane. You can close us off here, then we will finally finish with one last bit for this exciting Closed Session.” Minister Dylane: “We may close the session now. If memory serves, there have been few instances that a vote of no confidence has been called for. I was going to suggest we consult the archives. Yet if all parties are satisfied at present, we have little need to do so immediately.” Vice Legate Thermogan: “I have on last bit of news. Though the session has been going on for two hours or so, I will make it brief. In the next closed session, the vote of how we deal with the Sylvari issue will be presented. This is mostly about the monitoring of them or not. There are many schools of thought on this matter: Whether we should let it be non-Krytans, whether we should let it be non-Humans, whether we should just let it be Sylvari. I will be meeting with each Minister and Vice Legate personally to see what they would find to be a suitable bill to present here in these Chambers. So, I would like to thank you all for the wonderful year that we have had. Kryta is growing stronger and will remain the bulwark for humanity within Tyria. I think you all for letting me serve as Vice Legate for such a long time, though this Closed Session is now over. I think you all once more.” :Session ends.